Thursday 19 November 2020

Anti vax

Of all the odd causes people are passionate about, one that really baffles me is the campaign against vaccinations. I can't for the life of me understand why something that has transformed public health and prevented millions of deaths is seen as some sort of toxic conspiracy.

The anti-vax movement is now so big there are calls for social media to delete all anti-vax sites as they could be a serious obstacle to the take-up of coronavirus vaccine (an estimated 31 million people follow anti-vaccine groups on Facebook and 17 million on YouTube). The anti-vaxers insist, despite evidence to the contrary, that the forthcoming vaccines have been rushed along too fast, haven't been tested properly and will be dangerous to the recipients.

Although the scientists developing the vaccine insist they've been thoroughly trialled and have no serious side effects, the critics maintain that's a lot of whitewash and the dangers are being systematically hidden.

Well, personally I have every confidence in the new vaccines and their developers, and I'll be happy to get my virus jab at the earliest opportunity (and as a 73 year old, that'll be sooner than the general population).

After all, I've had loads of vaccinations in my life and none of them have had any adverse effects. I've had jabs for diphtheria, whooping cough, polio, measles, mumps, chicken pox, tetanus, flu (several times), pneumonia and shingles, quite uneventfully. So why on earth are the critics getting so hot under the collar?

Do they really think the NHS is setting out to poison and kill people? Why this perverse distrust of health workers? And why do they not recognise the huge health benefits vaccinations have brought since their invention in the 18th century?

34 comments:

  1. There are a lot of people in the queue ahead of me, so the only reason I wouldn't have the vaccine is if they all keel over, or turn into zombies :-)
    Imagine though, when they start the vaccine programme, imagine all the silly stories of bad reactions that are going to be in the press, or maybe they'll clamp down on that sort of thing.
    Sx

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    1. Ms Scarlet: Indeed, the bad reactions will be seized on and magnified by the anti-vaxers. Hopefully not too many people will join them.

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  2. There is a general distrust of traditional medicine and big pharma in the states. And then there are still people who believe the fraudulent claims of Andrew Wakefield, that vaccines are the cause of autism.

    I’m pro-vaccine, but from what I’ve read, there are concerns about the Covid vaccine because it was pushed through so quickly and the fact that none of us know what the long term effects of mRNA could be.

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    1. Bijoux: As I understand it, there are several explanations for the fast development of coronavirus vaccines. Firstly, technological advances which speed things up, and also that the long time schedule for other new medicines is caused largely by admin and funding problems rather than the development of the medicine itself. Of course there are unlimited funds for the coronavirus vaccine.

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    2. Bijoux: Also, the vaccine is building on flu vaccines that have already worked before, such as the MERS vaccine. Not to mention scientists working round the clock to speed things up.

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  3. Before getting "all hot under [your] collar" and accusing people of being conspiracy theorists think "Thalidomide". You know, that lovely sedative that "helped" women back in the late Fifties/early Sixties to keep pregnancy sickness under control? Wow. In the motherland the product was called Contergan children. Short arms, short legs . . . you name it. But at least their mothers didn't suffer morning sickness.

    I am not Anti-Vax; most certainly have had the Angel vaccinated against all and sundry when he was little. However, all those vaccines had been tested over decades. Am I a guinea pig, are you a guinea pig in the first wave of a vaccine which, by the way, has yet to materialize? Trust is one thing. Following blindly is another.

    And, don't faint, I have never had an anti flu jab either. The cautious do NOT think that "the NHS is setting out to poising and kill people". That you even repeat such claims is preposterous. You can't have it both ways, Nick. On one hand the government repeatedly refuses to listen to "Experts", on the other we just comply? Seriously? But then the populace will, largely, take a band aid instead of taking a calculated risk.

    U

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    1. Ursula: You can't condemn an entire history of vaccinations because of one medical disaster. And that disaster occurred specifically because thalidomide was never properly tested on pregnant women.

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    2. Nick, I do NOT "condemn an entire history of vaccinations" wholesale. Hail to Dr Jenner (small pox). All I said that I'd advise caution, not hang all our hopes on a few months' research into a vaccine, arrived at in a desperate scramble and barely tested.

      U

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    3. Ursula: Re "a few months' research", please read my reply to Bijoux.

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    4. Nick,
      Thalidomide is not a single disaster, remember the days when doctors promoted cigarettes? Remember how pregnant women were encouraged to have a drink or two?
      How about the way statins were promoted and eventually we found out they had significant problems? What about the psychiatric drugs prescribed for depression that increase suicidality?

      I'm deeply suspicious of big pharma and the governments they influence. There is so much money at stake and so many conflicts of interest.

      If you believe tha these institutions have our best interests at heart, you're extremely naive

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    5. Kylie: I don't believe government and big pharma necessarily have our best interests at heart. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because there have been medical disasters doesn't mean that all conventional medical treatments are dangerous and we should refuse them. Just as Hitler and Trump and Mugabe don't mean we should abandon the idea of democracy.

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  4. We were comparing notes and it seems that both our fathers were anti vaxxers before their time. In consequence we both had chicken pox, whooping cough and measles. I, in addition, had mumps and scarlet fever. In respect of polio they both had the same answer - keep out of the water.
    I can remember thinking it a pity that my father did not have the same scruples about the activities of school dentists who, as children, we assumed to have been trained by the Gestapo to run torture chambers.
    Ironic then that Leo was to fall victim to the immune disease which has only just failed to kill him in various attacks over the years thanks to his travels on business. He took advantage of British Airways vaccination service which gave multiple jabs in one, as it were, and this, it now appears, was the origin of his problem. He now cannot have jabs of any sort whatsoever wuthout starting another attack, so has a medical reason for refusing whatever vaccine is produced for the current bug.
    Costa Rica already has compulsory vaccination for children against the normal range of illnesses, so it would not be a big step to introduce compulsory vaccination against this bug, but I hope this does not happen.
    I am pro vaccines in principle, but my thinking evolved in the day when state medicine was state run and state funded. Now that medical research and development is firmly in the hands of the pharmaceutical companies I do not have the same confidence - particularly as in the case of vaccines developed to deal with this bug the companies will have legal immunity. I remember the fight to get justice for the thalidomide children and their families...difficult, hampered at every turn, but eventually successful. Now, that would be impossible should there be ill effects and this disturbs me.
    So, while being pro vaccines in principle, I would hesitate before taking what is currently being produced.

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    1. Fly: I'm sorry to hear about Leo's very bad luck with vaccinations. It's fortunate, as you say, that he has escaped death a number of times.

      I don't believe in compulsory vaccination. I think it should be an individual decision. Which is why all the misinformation is so harmful if it reduces the take-up of the vaccine.

      I don't think you can write off useful medicines simply because they've been developed by big pharma. Many people owe their improved health and even their lives to such medicines.

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    2. It is the immunity from prosecution which worries me.

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  5. I'm ready to get back to normal. I have all of my recommended shots..., and will get this one, too. With 10s of thousands of people enrolled in COVID efficacy and safety vaccine studies, I'm not concerned.

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    1. Mike: Exactly, these vaccines have been tested on huge numbers of people, so surely you have to assume they're as safe as they can be.

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  6. I have a niece who puts her child's autism down to a vaccination, as the child had engaged emotionally with everyone until one month after the vax and she became almost catatonic. I do believe there are cases. Having said that, I read of disastrous after effects to the flu shot, some resulting in death. But they are rare. And I do have a flu shot and a pneumonia shot. And also has shingles. The good outweighs the minimal downsides.

    XO
    WWW

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    1. www: This is it, the benefits far outweigh the possible risks. But I'm sorry to hear about your niece's child's autism. Again, it's very bad luck.

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    2. It's not "bad luck" if it was preventable, it's tragic and you're minimising the loss of potential for that child

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    3. Kylie: But the only way to prevent it would be to never be vaccinated. And since most people are vaccinated without any serious ill-effects, bad luck is exactly what it is.

      I'm not in any way minimising the loss of potential. It is indeed tragic and devastating for the parents.

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  7. I have had nearly every vaccine known to man yet I am not in a hurry to have this one. The rush to production scares me just a bit. I'm sure I will have it; I just don't want to be one of the first to do so. I'm using the excuse that all the critical personnel should have it first. :)

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    1. Linda: See my responses to Bijoux re the speed of development. But yes, I shall also be watching those ahead of me in the vaccine queue for any nasty side effects!

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  8. We're still waiting before we get the new shingles vaccine...I had the first one, then shingles itself, so hopefully I'm partially immune. We think the research on the Covid vaccines are a good thing but are happy to wait and read about side effects after enough people get them.

    We do get the flu shot every year. My daughter does too now, but she has more of a reaction to it than most people.

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    1. Jean: Yes, I'm waiting for a few others to be guinea pigs!

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  9. You may as well ask the authorities to pull up every man hole cover and eradicate "Deep State". You won't change minds.

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    1. Indeed. Most people don't change their minds in a hurry.

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  10. That sentiment is absent here. More likely, it it exists, it is not main stream news and / or for being politically correct, not reported in our media.

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    1. Ramana: Interesting. Good that there isn't the big anti-vax movement where you are.

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  11. Deliberately introducing the political element impacted the thinking of some people. Also, meds, vaccinations can have side effects problematic for some but usually only a small percentage of recipients. I suppose its a fear element out of control coupled with misinformation.

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    1. Joared: Also, a lot of people now seem to violently disagree with any mainstream thinking as a matter of principle. Anyone who accepts the prevailing opinions must be a fool.

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  12. HI Nick, by way of introduction I'm a first-time visitor who dropped in from Bytes from the Burbs (Bijoux) after reading your comments there as I'm always looking for new blogs to read, especially ones that are thought provoking. What a can of worms you opened with this post and resulting comments on the pros and cons of vaccinations.
    Like yourself, I am in the age category that may be first for an anti-covid vaccine and, yes, I will partake when deemed eligible. In my lifetime, I too have had all sorts of previous vaccinations from childhood through adulthood. In recent years they've included flu (annual), pneumonia (both sets), hepatitis, shingles (both sets). Thankfully all of the above were precautionary and perhaps as a result kept these afflictions away. At least that was the intended result.
    That said, it was what worked for me. Others claim to have had had differing results and thus may now be anti-vax proponents. At least two people I know both claim they had medical issues after a flu shot reaction. Whether or not these claims are valid, I have no way of knowing.
    It's definitely not a one-size-all and there are sure to be vociferous and continual debates over whether or not a covid vaccine was prematurely rushed and whether it will be effective.


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    1. Beatrice: Hi, thanks for visiting! I've been a blog buddy of Bijoux for over 8 years, would you believe.

      Yes, the vaccine debate is a pretty fierce one. As you say, if someone has had just one bad experience it can put them off vaccines for quite a while, if not for good. But I've never had any adverse reaction to any vaccine, so of course I'm all in favour.

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    2. Hi again Nick, yes long time blog buddies are great, friends we may never ( or might) one day meet. It’s really nice making new ones through other bloggers too. I forgot to ask if it would be OK to add your blog to my side list as it’s an easier way for me, and others, to access them.
      Also, many thanks for your visit and comment on my blog. Feel free to drop in again, anytime. The welcome mat is always out😀

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    3. Beatrice: Thanks for the friendly welcome! Of course, add me to your blog roll by all means.

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