In 2014 Gareth Lee asked Ashers, a Belfast bakery, to make him a cake with a slogan supporting gay marriage (which at that time was still illegal). The bakery refused, saying the slogan conflicted with their religious beliefs. So Mr Lee started a legal action for discrimination.
The case has made it way slowly through various courts, finally reaching the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled today that Mr Lee's case was inadmissible because he hadn't exhausted all options in UK courts.
It's not clear if Mr Lee will now abandon his legal action or soldier on in some way.
A lot of people have wondered why he bothered to take legal action in the first place. If Ashers refused to bake his cake, why didn't he just find another bakery that had no such objection? Why make such a big issue out of someone else's beliefs not aligning with his own?
He's spent huge amounts of time and money pursuing his legal action, when there was a very simple solution to Ashers' objection - just take his custom elsewhere.
Mr Lee seems to have a very large bee in his bonnet about a bakery that wouldn't supply exactly what he wanted. Perhaps he should kill the bee and put an end to his ridiculous obsession with trouncing Ashers.
It's not even a case about homophobia. Ashers have explained that they have nothing against homosexuals, only the particular slogan Mr Lee wanted on his cake.
After all, if someone wanted to buy a cake with a slogan supporting Adolf Hitler and Nazism, shouldn't the bakery have a right to refuse? I think so.
Pic: Gareth Lee
I'd like to know what the slogan was before any kind of opinion. Was it obscene? Was the customer humiliated in the bakery?
ReplyDeleteI like to reflect on such matters and bring it to women.
If the baker had an objection to serving women because they were unclean according to his religion where would you stand?
Discrimination is discrimination however you cut it.
XO
WWW
www: The full slogan was "Support gay marriage. Queer Space born 1998" Not obscene. No humiliation as far as I know. But no, I wouldn't support any discrimination against women customers, whatever the grounds.
ReplyDeleteIn a so-called "free world", I think that Ashers had the right to say "No!" After all, they didn't ask Mr Lee to walk into their shop. Couldn't he have got his mum to make and decorate the cake? Homemade is always best in my view.
ReplyDeleteYorkshire Pudding: Indeed, maybe his mum might have enjoyed making the cake for him. But might she also have objected to the slogan he wanted?
DeleteI think it's sad. 🙁
ReplyDeleteJean: What exactly is sad? That Ashers can't say no to a cake order? That this whole saga has been going on for so long? That Mr Lee can't just shrug off the refusal and move on?
DeleteIt still amazes me that the owner of a small business has no rights. Doesn't that mean anything? What if he says NO to cake order? Doesn't Asher have the right to run his business as he established long ago?
ReplyDeleteSusan: I think a small business has the right to turn away customers for whatever reason. Like being drunk or abusive or generally obstreperous. But I might be wrong.
DeleteI agree with Monk. Sad all around.
ReplyDeleteJoanne: See my reply to Jean. Sad about what exactly? Certainly the whole endless saga is absurd and unnecessary.
DeleteI think that the issue has been blown out of all proportion. The man just had to take his custom elsewhere as suggested by you. Publicity stunt?
ReplyDeleteRamana: It certainly has been blown out of all proportion. Why is Mr Lee gunning for Ashers so obsessively?
DeleteI'm a bit choosy about what I write out - I guess it depends on how you advertise and market yourself?
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, I'd have thought Mr Lee would be bored by this cake project by now - and he could have spent the money on far more interesting things.
Sx
Ms Scarlet: Indeed, surely by now he's bored to death with these endless legal shenanigans? In legal terms, I guess he's something of a vexatious litigant.
Delete"vexatious litigant" Remember talking recently about people who love to argue? This sounds related to that. I feel sorry for Ashers. Gareth Lee sounds like a bully picking a fight just because he can.
ReplyDeleteLinda: Agreed, a troll-like bully who's determined to harass Ashers until they're utterly sick of him.
DeleteWhat a shame to compare a slogan for gay marriage with a slogan for Hitler and nazism, especially as you may know how was the destiny of homosexuals during the 3rd Reich and still long years after. Ashers has nothing against homosexuals ?? So what is his problem. Of course he shows homophobia.
ReplyDeleteHannah
Hannah: What I was trying to say was that all businesses should have the right to refuse a certain request if they object to it. If businesses are obliged to act on any request, whatever it may be, then very offensive slogans like pro-Nazi slogans would have to be taken on board. And yes, I know about the persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany, along with other minority groups. Which is why I wouldn't want to bake someone a cake with a pro-Nazi message.
DeleteMy opinion is that a small business should be allowed to sell or not sell whatever they want. It is not discriminating against anyone to make decisions on what you want or don’t want to sell.
ReplyDeleteLee clearly had a vendetta. Too bad he didn’t take that money and time and help people who are truly being discriminated against.
Bijoux: Very true. He could have donated an awful lot of money to gay causes and charities.
DeleteAh yes, the old gay cake issue seems to pop up all around the world.
ReplyDeleteThe bakery has a right to decline service to anyone for any reason but in so doing, they put their bias and hate on show.
I wouldn't want to waste so much time and money on litigation but I make that decision on the basis of how much time and money I have. Another would have a different view of their resources. I would publicise the situation and let natural justice take it's course. Having said that, society has to be in the right place and the timing right for natural justice to actually work.
There is a case to be made for pursuing it through the courts, in this society documentation is everything and once a court decides on such an issue it sets a precedent which others really need to take heed of. If there was a finding against the bakery, nobody would ever again refuse to make such a cake
Kylie: I'm not sure about hatred. They were simply following their religious belief that gay marriage was wrong. Just as I might believe that an arranged marriage is wrong.
DeleteYes, publicising the situation might be just as effective as an expensive legal action.
Indeed, a judicial decision against Ashers would set a precedent, but what a waste of time and money to achieve it. So far eight years and counting!
He should have just gone to a different place and forgot about this place that wouldn't make his cake.
ReplyDeleteMary: Absolutely. And half the population must be thinking exactly the same.
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