When I was young and dating women, I ran into some who seemed alarmingly submissive. As I always saw women as equals, I quietly stopped dating them.There are still a lot of men who either openly or secretly hanker after submissive women. Women who will do what they want and not challenge them. Women who stick to the traditional roles and don't get too uppity.
That sort of woman wasn't for me. I thought a submissive woman could only encourage me to dominate, and before too long I'd be bossing her around like the conventional unyielding male. I wanted a woman who was strong, independent and assertive enough to stand up to me when necessary.
Zoe* invariably deferred to me on any decision. Where to go, what to do, what to eat, even what to wear. If I seemed too cool about her new dress or her make-up, she would rush to change them. If I questioned her opinion on something she would promptly backpedal rather than stand her ground. She seemed terrified of being herself and creating any conflict.
Trudy* fooled me for a while. Time after time she would make out that by an amazing coincidence she shared my opinions and tastes on any number of things. "We're like twins, Nicky" she would say. "We must be astrologically similar." It slowly dawned on me that the common opinions were a pretence and her real opinions were quite different. She was being submissive but more deviously.
There are still plenty of submissive women out there. They'll drink themselves under the table to impress a hard-drinking man. Or satisfy bizarre sexual requests that privately disgust them. Or spend tedious evenings with his detestable friends. Anything to have a bloke in tow rather than be unattached but true to themselves.
Me, I ended up with a woman who was indeed strong, independent and assertive and won't stand for any nonsense. It was the best decision I ever made.
* Not their real names
I like men who are assertive and confidant, but not because I am submissive. It's because I want someone who is equal to me, and who wants a strong woman. I can be very accommodating, but when it matters I say what's on my mind
ReplyDeleteMutual respect and an equal partnership is how I lived and wanted to live my married life.
ReplyDeleteSecret Agent - Saying what's on your mind is essential to a real relationship. Otherwise it's just a lot of shadow-boxing and confusion.
ReplyDeleteGrannymar - Yes, mutual respect is vital. Too often it gradually gives way to intolerance and carping.
As has been said, respect is vital to any relationship, a partner who is consistently acquiescent and submissive does not respect themselves any can't respect others.
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WWW
I still find that many men find assertive women shall we say 'challenging' and often intimidating.
ReplyDeleteI am submissive only in my fantasies. And like I've said, I think, before somewhere, sometimes submission is secretly dominance (you know, my fave expression: topping from the bottom)!
ReplyDeletei'm quite submissive at times but i am truly happier as an equal
ReplyDeletewww - This is it, a submissive person doesn't respect themself first and foremost.
ReplyDeleteBaino - But of course challenging doesn't have to mean intimidating, it can also mean stimulating and inspiring.
Leah - True, submission can sometimes be a subtle type of dominance, but too often they're just letting themself be a doormat.
Kylie - Nobody can be truly happy if they're not equal and are being constantly pushed around.
Nick, I have known some women who like submissive men! I have got a few of them still around hoping to get me to change! Haven't you seen all those henpecked husbands, whose sole vocabulary is "Yes dear."? It takes all kinds to make this world.
ReplyDeleteIt may seem fabulous for about five minutes but after a while there is no bigger turn off than a women who does everything you want... but I would never tell my little fireball that ;0)
ReplyDeleteRamana - Oh yes, I know it happens the other way round as well. And men can also be victims of domestic violence. But the hen-pecked husbands are at fault too for not standing up to their wives.
ReplyDeleteDistracted - For most men maybe, but there are still some who want nothing better than a woman they can boss around forever.
Very interesting Nick. Food for thought here- for one who was schooled to be submissive in her marriage by the church doctrine she subscribed to at the time.
ReplyDeleteCinnamon - The church has an awful lot to answer for when it comes to women suppressing themselves to please their menfolk. Women are still second-class citizens in many religions.
ReplyDeleteNick, I do agree--submission is more often just submission. The subtle politics of dominance and submission in relationships are possibly overstated at times...but I'm interested in it anyway. I've seen women definitely manipulate with "submission," but again, more often a cigar is just a cigar!
ReplyDeleteThis is one of my favorite topics on many levels, I must say.
Leah - One can sometimes be fooled by women who appear very docile and submissive in public but in private they change into tyrants who make their husbands' lives hell!
ReplyDeleteI get ratty and start throwing plates around if I'm forced to be submissive!
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Scarlet - I can imagine. I can't picture you as at all submissive. You seem admirably self-assured.
ReplyDeleteBringing this conversation down to a whole new level, I learned about "subs" whilst scanning through an ex's e-mails (don't ask...)
ReplyDeleteIt's scary out there..
Macy - I guess it's all part of the sado-masochism/ bondage dimension of sexual fantasy. And the whole idea is that it's fantasy and strictly separate from daily life. Or at least that's the theory....
ReplyDeleteGosh, that made me think. Easy to slip into deferring to another for an easy life, however you are right, it doesn't make you happy. It's a hard habit to break though.
ReplyDeleteSuburbia - Deferring to someone is tempting if assertiveness doesn't come naturally. But it will sour the relationship sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteWell, good for you! Don't knock the poor submissive women, though. They're probably brainwashed into it and can't help it.
ReplyDeleteGaelikaa - Oh, I do sympathise. As you say, many submissive women have been brainwashed into it. Despite the best feminist efforts, traditional gender roles are still passed on by parents, teachers and the media, and they can be hard to resist.
ReplyDeleteI am submissive, but I still voice my opinions.
ReplyDeleteThe girls described in the post were just insecure doormats. There's a difference.
Anon - I think the crucial question is whether your opinions are listened to and taken seriously, or whether they're simply ignored. I hope it's the first!
ReplyDeleteWhat people don't realize, in a healthy D/s relationship, while it is the D that controls all aspects of life, there are differences. If the D is truely responsible and kind, everything is taken into consideration and decisions are made to benefit everyone involved. It is when the D is cruel, the problems arise. My D takes time to listen to me. He also is very kind and attentive-pushing me past my boundaries but respecting my limits. He allows me to be who I am while expecting me to be so much more. He does things in such a manner to make me want to better myself, ie: work, education, dress, etc. While this is a relatively new relationship(9 mths), I realize it is not perfect but it is working for us.
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