Monday 26 October 2020

Crossing the line

It amazes me what some people (usually women but also men) will put up with from their partner in the way of bad behaviour and still stay with them rather than walking out. They'll find some excuse for even the most atrocious goings-on.

The most obvious example is Melania Trump, who has endured the most appalling behaviour since meeting Donald Trump 22 years ago, but there are plenty of other examples. Lots of politicians are serial womanisers but for some reason their wives stick with them.

So I wonder what would cause me to think "that's enough, that's crossed the line" and walk out of a relationship. It would have to be something pretty major, something quite unforgivable. Suppose your partner was guilty of:

  • A serious crime like a physical assault or a hit-and-run
  • A huge fraud
  • A severe addiction
  • Persistent lying and deceit
  • Being generally abusive and belittling
  • Insulting your friends and family
  • A string of affairs
  • Domestic violence
  • Refusing sex
  • Persistent misogyny
  • Using pornography
  • Using prostitutes
What would your attitude be?

Of course it's easy enough to say I would never put up with X or Y when I've never been put to the test, but would I feel differently if these things actually happened? Like others, would I find excuses for what the other person has done rather than take the drastic step of leaving them?

If there's a lot at stake, a lot to give up, like power and wealth and fame in Melania's case, would I still walk away or would I stay put?

I admire those public figures who do say "enough is enough" and pack their bags. Like Marina Wheeler, who finally tired of Boris Johnson's behaviour after 25 years and left him to it. However delinquent someone's conduct, it's never easy to start again.

37 comments:

  1. Marina Wheeler is no angel.
    Her treatment of the man with whom she had a knee trembler against the wall of Waterloo station was a dsgrace.

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    1. Fly: Ah, I'd forgotten about that. But not many of us would qualify as angels!

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    2. You have to be particularly unpleasant to accuse her willing partner of sexual assault so that her name would not be made public.

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    3. Fly: I don't know anything about that. Who was the willing partner?

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    4. His name now escapes e, but he was/is a solicitor...they had been at a meeting together and became steaming with both drink and lust, thus the public exhibition. Taken in charge by the police she decided to state that she was assaulted to preserve her name from publicity as a victim...and she was on the Bar ethics committee at the time!

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    5. Just been googling this. Graeme Stening was the lawyer concerned, but it seems there's some doubt whether Marina Wheeler was the other party.

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    6. None whatsoever, thus her resignation from the ethics committee. I still get the gossip from the front.

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  2. Yes, it would be scary to cut all ties and start over. That's why some people put up with abusive situations.

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    1. Jean: Indeed. You have to be pretty desperate to call it a day and start again.

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  3. I kicked my ex husband out - due to alcoholism, drug use, womanizing, lying - bottomline he had a second life going on. I was suspicious. He gaslighted me into thinking that it was all my fault so I went to therapy. Best investment of my life. One day I packed his clothes, and junk, and set them on the front porch when he came home from work. He was shocked. He thought I would continue to take it like I had for 20 years.

    I had 3 sons to raise - preteen to teenage. It was hard and he rose to his true colors - he did nothing to help us. All in all it was the best thing I could ever have done to save my family.

    I'm an old lady now - remarried to a wonderful man, almost 20 years! What a HUGE difference this 2nd marriage is, compared to the first. I have never known such contentment.

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    1. Debby: Wow, that sounds like a horrific experience. Glad you managed to get away from him and find a very different second husband.

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  4. When abuse is all you've ever known you are unable to recognize it as something wrong. How do you learn there is something else out there? Then, how do you get the courage to try for that something else? My grandmother stayed with my grandfather until he died and so did my mother with my father for 18 years. I'm still not sure how Mom ever left. It makes me realize how lucky I am to have found my Dave.

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    1. Linda: As you say, you may be so used to abuse that you don't realise how abnormal it is. My mother put up with my father's raging temper and controlling behaviour for many years. She did contemplate divorce at one point but didn't go through with it.

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  5. Often complex reasons why a spouse stays in a bad marriage. Perhaps Melania fears she might lose custody of their son and what Donald might do legally and otherwise, if she is unhappy in that marriage, for example.

    Generally speaking, the reasons for not leaving a marriage can be quite different for men then women, I think, and when there are children the situation can become complicated. I think it often looks simple to people on the outside who seldom ever have all the relationship facts. Of course, when it becomes a matter of life and death there should be no hesitation to leave but sometimes knowing that is not always recognized until it's too late. Even then, there are too many instances when even leaving with legal protective measures taken fail to work.

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    1. Joared: Yes, the reasons for staying in a bad relationship are often complex and hard for outsiders to understand. And as you say, even after you've walked away, protective measures may not be enough and the other person will still pursue you and dog your life.

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  6. Melania surely knew what she was getting into. I also think she's rewritten that prenup a couple of times.

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    1. Joanne: True, she probably knew exactly what she was taking on and decided there was a worthwhile trade-off.

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  7. Some people put up with a lot. Others don't put up with much. Sometimes, there's not much to put up with. (48 1/2 year, social distancing together the last 8 months)

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    1. Mike: Those of us who are in happy relationships find it hard to understand why others stay in obviously unhappy ones.

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  8. It’s hard to ever know what really goes on behind closed doors and why some people stay.

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    1. Bijoux: Very true. Quite often we never know more than the few cryptic details someone happens to let slip. Beyond that, the relationship is a closed book.

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  9. I live in a society where divorces are still extremely rare and society does not approve of it irrespective of what goes on in the relationships. It is very painful to see many women in abusive relationships particularly with alcoholics. They have to go out to work to finance the family as well as the mate's habit. This phenomenon is so common that on a few occasions when I intervened in a husband abusing his wife in my presence, the wives have asked me to stay off.

    I do not understand this phenomenon either.

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    1. Ramana: Very odd when there's obviously a serious problem but the wife asks you to butt out. Masochism or pragmatism, I wonder?

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    2. Not necessarily. Sometimes the abuser gets more aggressive when outside interference appears. So a wife asking an outsider not to get involved can be self preservation.

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    3. Linda: That's true. I've heard of people being seriously injured when they tried to intervene.

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    4. It's not about the intervener, the abused party is likely to cop it again when they get home. Many men find it humiliating to be corrected in that manner and their anger rises

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    5. Kylie: Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Intervention may be well-meaning but foolish.

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  10. So much of this is dependency. For women, financial is key. Many women haven't the education to finance their families. Some don't want to. Abusive men are usually dead beat dads too. I can't count the number of women I know who have been victims. Death threats prevail and we read about them in the papers all the time where he murders the ex spouse or sometimes the children in front of her to make her suffer the rest of her life.

    This is a complex subject Nick and I agree with Joared.

    There is never a one size fits all solution.

    Melania is just doing her job and bless her, she's being paid well and got her desperate parents into the US but you can smell the contempt off her. That jacket back said it all. I hope she finds happiness at some point.

    XO
    WWW

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    1. www: Indeed, a man can still pursue a woman after she has left him and continue to make her life hell. Restraining orders are often ignored and followed by further harassment. And yes, that jacket back was brilliant.

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  11. Oh it's so complicated. There are a million reasons why people stay. Sometimes because they don't feel they are financially able, sometimes because there are other things that make up for the flaws, sometimes for the kids' sake, sometimes because of childhood abuse histories ... and the list goes on. I try not to judge because I know I don't have the full story.

    As for Melania, she's sold her soul for wealth. And she is complicit. I don't feel even a little sorry for her.

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    1. Agent: Yes, I know there are many many reasons why a person doesn't simply walk out. I guess I'm just surprised that even the most abominable behaviour somehow gets justified. My mother thought seriously of divorce at one point but in the end decided to stay put - I'm not sure why.

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  12. Your talk of survivors "making excuses for" their perpetrators is condescending and demeaning and the "why don't they just leave?" Just lacks compassion.
    Imagine leaving Jenny, imagine the logistics of where to go and when and what to take and what to leave and who can help cos Jenny sure won't. Then think about your new financial circumstances, add in a couple of kids, a disrupted career, paying for childcare or getting a job that allows you to be at home a lot.....and where do you go if he's likely to kill the dog that you love ......

    The question to ask is not why put up with it, it's why do people do it?

    Melania traded freedom and dignity for money. More fool her

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  13. Kylie: Condescending, demeaning and lacking compassion? Okay. But I do understand how complicated and daunting (and terrifying) it can be to up sticks and start afresh. I still wonder though how anyone can put up with cruel, sadistic and abusive behaviour year after year without finding some way of escaping.

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