Does justice mean retaliation? Or punishment? Or a show of remorse? Or putting someone in jail? It can mean all sorts of things.
Lissie Harper, the widow of PC Andrew Harper, who died after being dragged behind a speeding car for over a mile, said that for many months she had hoped "justice would come".
When the three teenagers in the car were found guilty of manslaughter rather than murder, she said she was "immensely disappointed".
But what justice can there possibly be when your husband has died in such a horrific fashion? Nothing can bring him back to life, nothing can erase the grief and suffering she has endured since his death, nothing can compensate for the ruin of all her hopes for the future.
Even if the three teenagers are jailed for life (they'll be sentenced on Friday), how will that help her? It would be a heavy punishment, but punishment isn't the same as justice. Punishment won't ease her pain, or her family's pain.
My idea of justice in this case would probably be equally horrific deaths for the three teenagers, maybe in a nasty car crash while speeding away from some attempted crime. That's not something the law can arrange, though.
But no idea of justice could possibly compensate for that fateful knock on the front door, and a very sombre police officer telling you that your husband is dead.
Pic: Andrew and Lissie Harper
PS: Lissie Harper has written to the Prime Minister asking for a retrial, but it's not clear on what grounds a retrial might be justified. On Friday, one of the teenagers was jailed for 16 years, and the other two for 13 years.
This is a horrible case, isn't it? My worse by seeing the smirking faces of those teenagers after they got off the murder charge. I just wanted to slap them.
ReplyDeleteNo, justice is difficult. I once asked myself what would make me feel better after someone had cheated me [I know this is not the same], and I thought I just want the people responsible to stand in a room so I can shout and shout and shout at them. It would have probably gone on for several days, and I'm not 100% sure it would have made me feel any better, but that's what I wanted to do.
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Ms Scarlet: If someone had cheated me, I'd certainly want to get my own back in some way, preferably so they suffered more of a blow than I did.
DeleteJustice and court verdicts are two very different things. There are also, in some instances international ramifications like the Harry Dunn case or in our case the Italian Marines who killed some of our fishermen. I strongly believe in that old dictum that the law is an ass.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/italian-marines-case-india-loses-jurisdiction/article31973247.ece
Ramana: I wouldn't say the law is an ass. After all, we need to have some way of regulating people's behaviour. But courts do come up with some very strange verdicts.
DeleteI am firm believer in restorative justice and it can take many forms and many of these kind of sentences (mainly in aboriginal communities, sometimes in enlightened communities) have resulted in extraordinary transformations of the accused.
ReplyDeleteMurder has to be premeditated and what is premeditation?
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www: I've read that restorative justice can be very effective. Perhaps it should be tried more often, rather than arbitrary punishments that don't satisfy anybody.
DeleteJudge Henry Cecil Leon - better known as the novelist Henry Cecil - was faced with a litigant who said that she had come to court for justice. He replied that a court could only dispense law.
ReplyDeleteI see the defence clainmed that the incident could not have been foreseen...but the fact remains that they continued after becoming aware of the situation...enough for malice aforethought in my view,but not for the jury. I would like to see the judge's summing up.
Fly: Surely they must have been aware that something heavy was attached to the car, and they should have stopped the car to investigate.
DeleteThey will no doubt go on to commit other crimes. Will they be locked up for a while at least?
ReplyDeleteJean: I await Friday's sentencing with interest.
DeleteMaybe justice would be requiring those kids to do volunteer work in a facility for handicapped people? As you can tell, I am big on alternative sentencing that helps the community rather than simply incarcerating perps. Incarceration often teaches perps skills we'd rather they didn't have. Let's teach them better ones while serving.
ReplyDeleteLinda: I agree, some sort of community service would be much more useful. When jails are often seen as universities of crime, and rehabilitation programmes are sadly lacking, what purpose do jails serve except for those who need locking up to protect the public?
DeleteI am not aware of this case until now, and quite unqualified to comment. But I will. Ten or fifteen years of incarceration, five days a week community service would work for me.
ReplyDeleteJoanne: But as others have said, is 15 years in jail the wrong move if jail is just a university of crime? Will they come out more of a liability than before they were jailed?
DeleteThe concept of "justice" does present a conundrum.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that no amount of "justice", that slippery eel, will bring back that which is lost. In that sense "justice" can never be done.
Punishment? Sure. If only to warn others off. The threat of punishment acting as some sort of brakes in the vehicle (mind) of the unbridled and unhinged.
Whilst I have never taken revenge on anyone (it's not in my nature though sometimes I wish it were), I totally get the concept of revenge. As illustrated by so many movies some great, some pathetic. The first revenge movie I watched was a Charles Bronson (Chato's Land). He systematically tracked down the guys who had trashed his wife, his kid, his life. Reminds me of another one, this time a woman the avenger (Truffaut's "The Bride Wore Black"). Again systematically, she hunts down everyone of the men who (albeit accidently) shot her freshly wedded husband. It's not me but, as I said above, I totally get where that primal desire of revenge comes from. Yet, as you, Nick, say - then what? You are back to square one. Only having soiled yourself.
Since I appear to get carried away on the film thread, think the early Clint Eastwoods. You know when the law was no law. People being lynched, strung up from trees. Short shrift. Bounty hunters. You name it. At least the culprits didn't suffer lingering in prisons. No burden on the public purse.
The one paragraph of yours I don't agree with, in this day and age, is where you suggest an eye for an eye wishing those teenagers the same fate as the victim suffered. "Slapping" them as Ms Scarlett daintily suggests? Banging their heads together more like it.
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Ursula: I can sympathise with the idea of revenge as well. Why should someone get away with treating you badly, or get some laughable courtroom penalty? But it's an uncivilised emotion I wouldn't actually indulge.
DeleteI’m not familiar with the case and honestly, am just fed up with society as a whole right now.
ReplyDeleteBijoux: I feel the same way. There are so many appalling things going on in the world, starting with the deranged antics of the US President.
DeleteJustice definitely means different things to different people.
ReplyDeleteMary: It does. And expecting the legal system to give you justice is naive in the extreme.
DeleteThat's horrifying. It would be hard to live with the knowledge that someone you loved died that way. And I think when people say they want justice, they really want vengeance. And the for vengeance, I believe, damages you. I get it, I truly do, but I don't think there is any peace to be found in hurting someone who has hurt you.
ReplyDeleteAgent: Justice means vengeance? Not sure. Certainly an element of vengeance must come into it, but I guess it's also about feeling safe, restoring confidence in the law and the police and so on.
DeleteYes, justice is impossible to quantify. I haven't often suffered in ways that made me thirst for justice. When my brother in law was killed by a drunk and speeding driver I didn't even pay attention to the court case, it couldn't bring him back.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that justice is eventually done. It's a biblical idea but I'm not even sure if I believe it because it's biblical or because I just want to think justice prevails.
Lissie Harper will never feel justice has been done, because it can't be. She can live a good and meaningful life though, that's as good as it gets
Kylie: I agree, the best thing Lissie Harper can do is try and put this awful tragedy behind her and make the most of the rest of her life.
DeleteI'm not familiar with this case, but it sounds horrible. I like your idea of justice for the teenagers involved. Their sentences sound way too light to even come close to justice.
ReplyDeleteDanielle: Jail terms of 16 and 13 years seem pretty hefty to me, though they'll only serve two thirds if they behave themselves.
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