tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post5508652861174085037..comments2024-03-28T07:49:04.960+00:00Comments on nickhereandnow: Refugee hellnickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10472673041193755894noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-8503634590865947972015-09-08T09:33:01.523+01:002015-09-08T09:33:01.523+01:00Jean: Very interesting articles. The second one em...Jean: Very interesting articles. The second one emphasises the incredible scale of the current refugee/migrant crisis and how governments, charities and international organisations are simply overwhelmed by the problem. The one thing that would ease the situation is an end to all the conflicts and wars going on in various countries, but that doesn't look possible any time soon. ISIS in particular are bent on permanent war and permanent expansion of the territories they control. They're not going to call a truce tomorrow morning.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-20659591885837058512015-09-08T07:16:44.374+01:002015-09-08T07:16:44.374+01:00Jean: Thanks for the links. I'll read them pro...Jean: Thanks for the links. I'll read them properly later (just heading off to work). I think Germany has many towns where the population is falling and they're hoping migrants will revitalise them. But there is a serious risk, I'm sure, that a warm welcome for refugees will encourage yet more refugees to try their luck. It's all a horrible mess. The ultimate solution is of course to tackle the problems (civil war, drought, political oppression etc) that are forcing people to leave home. But that's a Herculean task.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-81113096120211917202015-09-08T03:39:09.916+01:002015-09-08T03:39:09.916+01:00Link didn't work. Try here: https://www.washi...Link didn't work. Try here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/as-tragedies-shock-europe-a-bigger-refugee-crisis-looms-in-the-middle-east/2015/08/29/3858b284-9c15-11e4-86a3-1b56f64925f6_story.htmlCheerfulMonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934008738777906970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-345626971448379542015-09-08T03:37:07.853+01:002015-09-08T03:37:07.853+01:00The problem is a lot bigger than just taking in re...The problem is a lot bigger than just taking in refugees who make it to Europe. They were the relatively rich ones. <a rel="nofollow">Here's</a> the real disaster. CheerfulMonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934008738777906970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-56957366368632835402015-09-08T02:39:50.997+01:002015-09-08T02:39:50.997+01:00Here is another interesting article. Germany is c...<a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe-struggles-to-handle-accelerating-flow-of-refugees/2015/09/07/e2bbc509-414b-4890-bedf-c76b37ae109a_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_evening" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is another interesting article. Germany is committed to making it work. Apparently they think there will be jobs for people there. CheerfulMonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934008738777906970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-40376792184669534912015-09-07T22:09:11.767+01:002015-09-07T22:09:11.767+01:00Jenny: I expect ISIS will try to do just that. Hop...Jenny: I expect ISIS will try to do just that. Hopefully any terrorists will be detected before they do anything horrendous. But as I say, I think that's a risk we have to take.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-27322723442119296702015-09-07T21:36:43.581+01:002015-09-07T21:36:43.581+01:00I think it's a bit naive to imagine that ISIS ...I think it's a bit naive to imagine that ISIS wouldn't try to get people into European countries under the guise of refugees. It is the obvious thing to do. I'm not saying this is a reason not to take them but we should be aware. Jenny Woolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16881781466502273314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-23725821441938185052015-09-07T17:37:03.446+01:002015-09-07T17:37:03.446+01:00Jenny: Yes, I remember your posts about Syria and ...Jenny: Yes, I remember your posts about Syria and Palmyra in particular, now horribly devastated. There is always that risk, I guess, that people entering other countries will turn out to be terrorists or preachers of hate, but I think that's a risk we have to take in order to offer sanctuary to the genuinely desperate.<br /><br />That's a good point about helping people to stay locally to their own countries so they can return to those they've left behind. That's probably the ideal solution, but countries like Lebanon have already taken huge numbers of refugees and I think genuinely have problems taking any more.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-36077396306831894362015-09-07T17:23:59.797+01:002015-09-07T17:23:59.797+01:00Scarlet: And the air strikes will no doubt lead to...Scarlet: And the air strikes will no doubt lead to another wave of refugees....Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-3059850639799343222015-09-07T17:16:48.193+01:002015-09-07T17:16:48.193+01:00Some very interesting comments on this post, Nick....Some very interesting comments on this post, Nick. As you might remember we <br />made several trips to Syria before the conflict for work reasons and <br />I was very impressed by the society and the way people interacted with each <br />other. We received so much kindness and they were very dignified and proud, <br />It was a multi faith society, Damascus had a Christian quarter <br />with churches and we also visited an area whose churches had been <br />functioning since almost the time of Christ and had been converted from <br />Roman temples. And what amazing sites there were - wonderful things to see and good people who generally treated each other decently and respectfully despite living under a horrible dictatorship. So I am <br />all for doing everything possible to help them to put their lives together (including individuals that I know) and I am totally heartbroken about what is happening in Syria, I just can't say how much it upsets me to hear what is going on and how worried we are for some of those we have lost touch with there. <br /><br />Nevertheless this is a complicated question and it could make things worse to blunder into "helping" for heedless sentimental reasons. Cameron has been forced to do the decent thing by public pressure, thank goodness, but many of the refugees are already safe in European countries, but just don't happen to like them. They are not in danger of their lives. They might prefer something different but it is just a fact that Europe cannot provide a better life for eryone who wants to escape their own dysfunctional countries - we have our own lives to lead and our own problems to solve, our own vulnerable and frail people to look after. Also, we should not assume we understand the motivations of people who want to come here so badly even though they are already safe. Some could have been sent by ISIS, it would be the absolute obvious thing for ISIS to do, wouldn't it? And we already have experience of people who were given asylum here who have milked the system and caused no end of misery - Hani Al-Siba springs to mind. I think Cameron is right in trying to help people stay locally to their own countries so they can ultimately return and deal with the sick, vulnerable and elderly they have left behind there and rebuild their lives in a place where they belong. Jenny Woolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16881781466502273314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-67481707126063372692015-09-07T15:47:58.389+01:002015-09-07T15:47:58.389+01:00Well something had to be done.
Refugees, or evacue...Well something had to be done.<br />Refugees, or evacuees? I'm wondering when the airstrikes on Syria will begin.<br />SxMs Scarlethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449626572478125088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-78467710833405995762015-09-07T07:22:00.259+01:002015-09-07T07:22:00.259+01:00Jean: That's encouraging. Let's hope today...Jean: That's encouraging. Let's hope today's refugees are accepted as easily.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-79039227994890082022015-09-07T06:51:08.410+01:002015-09-07T06:51:08.410+01:00We'll just have to see. As I recall here in t...We'll just have to see. As I recall here in town we accepted a lot of migrants from Vietnam years ago and it was no big deal. CheerfulMonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934008738777906970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-45133109393743960292015-09-06T09:03:11.187+01:002015-09-06T09:03:11.187+01:00Jean: It's hard to predict, isn't it? Some...Jean: It's hard to predict, isn't it? Some communities seem to assimilate incomers with few problems, while others become hot-beds of tension and hostility. If the number of migrants coming into an area is kept relatively small, I would have thought they could be absorbed fairly easily.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-53976398757711083982015-09-06T06:52:15.340+01:002015-09-06T06:52:15.340+01:00I'm afraid I agree with Ramana, I think there ...I'm afraid I agree with Ramana, I think there will be a lot of trouble in the future. Remember the chaos in France with the second-generation Algerians because of the lack of assimilation and job opportunities? There is a lot more to be done than just providing shelter and welfare. It will be interesting to see what happens in Germany. There's a lot more to it than just selfishness or altruism. CheerfulMonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934008738777906970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-37305619149897711902015-09-05T12:59:31.335+01:002015-09-05T12:59:31.335+01:00Ramana: I assume you're referring to religious...Ramana: I assume you're referring to religious/cultural differences that will make it hard for incomers to settle properly into any European countries. That may well be the case. I understand that Turkey has taken quite a lot of refugees, but it's odd that Arab countries are refusing to take any.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-73182393739383603592015-09-05T12:51:42.247+01:002015-09-05T12:51:42.247+01:00Ursula: That's an interesting first hand accou...Ursula: That's an interesting first hand account of the chaos at Budapest's Keleti Station. Glad they are now moving after the two-day stand-off. But presumably there are lots more refugees trying to get on trains and there may be another blockade sooner or later.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-49088340955879568492015-09-05T12:24:08.972+01:002015-09-05T12:24:08.972+01:00Why can't the Arabs and the Turks take them in...Why can't the Arabs and the Turks take them in? Why don't these people want to go to those countries? Ten years down the line, the asylum givers will be singing a different tune altogether Nick. Mark my words. We are not factoring in other material except our own emotional ones in wanting to giver asylum to these people.Rummuserhttp://www.rummuser.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-90353789229084181342015-09-05T11:51:26.862+01:002015-09-05T11:51:26.862+01:00Nick, thought you might be interested in the Angel...Nick, thought you might be interested in the Angel's eye witness account. No doubt you will have seen pictures from Budapest main train station. The Angel currently on an extended trip - so far, Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden, Wien/Vienna,arrived in Budapest. Excerpt from his email two days ago.<br /><br />"... what I thought would be the simplest journey so far turned out to be the longest and maddest. On leaving Wien at 10 am Hungary announced they weren't going to accept any high speed cross country trains into Budapest, so we had to get off at this tiny border station. It was like going back in time, the platform signs were hand written on signs in roman numerals. No one had a clue what was going on until someone in a high visibility jacket walked along and mumbled something for us all to follow, assuming I suppose that everyone wanted to go to Budapest. So we got on another train which stopped off at every small station and then had to change once more before making it there. It took 5 hours instead of 2 but it made for a much more interesting journey ... On arriving I had got to the wrong part of the city so had to negotiate the tram to the main station. When I arrived I could not believe my eyes...<br />I walked out into tent city, complete mayhem. Refugees sprawled out all over the floor, hundreds as far as the eye can see in every direction. You literally have to try and negotiate a path through. Once I got out of the metro I could see the entrance to the main station, 50 or so policemen guarding the entrance and maybe 20 film crews. In front were about 200 refugees sitting in lines like an assembly, some with signs - the one that stands out "where is freedom?". I don't know what they are going to do because they can't leave it like that, its a real shock to the system for a first impression."<br /><br />Well, two days on they are moving - in a direction I hope will fulfill their hopes of a peaceful life.<br /><br />UUrsulahttp://bitchontheblog.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-2531940275410905262015-09-05T08:59:49.635+01:002015-09-05T08:59:49.635+01:00Kylie: I didn't know some journalists had tran...Kylie: I didn't know some journalists had translated it as Alan. As if.<br /><br />I agree that those sad pictures have really flagged up the refugee crisis to people who weren't paying much attention to it, so even though they might be distressing to the father, they've prompted a lot more action from governments and ordinary folk like you and me.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-31213810114094914582015-09-05T08:49:43.614+01:002015-09-05T08:49:43.614+01:00Jean: Thanks for that. It sounds like Syria is in ...Jean: Thanks for that. It sounds like Syria is in a state of virtual collapse. What with bombing by government warplanes, the expansion of Islamic State, other insurgent groups fighting the government and each other, government forces demanding protection money from the locals (that's a tactic I haven't heard of before), pressure from adjacent religious governments, severe drought, and economic failure, no wonder so many people (even the very wealthy) are now rushing to get out.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-22562574547466986452015-09-05T01:42:35.519+01:002015-09-05T01:42:35.519+01:00Thank you for giving the boy his name Aylan, I und...Thank you for giving the boy his name Aylan, I understand that Aylan is probably an Anglicised version of a name which would be written in another script but it is way way better than the "Alan" which I have seen used in several places and which arrogantly assumes that everybody in the world should have a name which is understood by english speaking ears.<br /><br />I read an article criticising the use of the photo and the write made some good points about respect for the dead and so on but in this case (as with the naked girl in the Vietnam war) a single powerful picture has created an awareness and a sense of urgency which was sadly lacking.<br /><br />I cant imagine what it is like for that father to see photos of his son's body flashed all over the world but I hope that in time he is able to see it as possibly the greatest contribution ever to the plight of his people.kyliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08964475783207438103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-3663755480885785862015-09-04T23:17:39.767+01:002015-09-04T23:17:39.767+01:00Here is another take on the subject.<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/05/world/middleeast/exodus-of-syrians-highlights-political-failure-of-the-west.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is another take on the subject. CheerfulMonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934008738777906970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-3447936878249981142015-09-04T21:24:39.426+01:002015-09-04T21:24:39.426+01:00Bijoux: Thanks for that. The article does point ou...Bijoux: Thanks for that. The article does point out the difficulties involved in allowing people in from other countries. Interesting that immigration officials are ultra-cautious because they're frightened of letting in someone who turns out to be a terrorist. Interesting also that some Somalians have caused problems with crime, welfare dependency and Islamic extremism. But it's good that the quota of Syrians to be allowed into the country is to be increased to 8,000 in 2016.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-10892341790577164412015-09-04T19:59:42.226+01:002015-09-04T19:59:42.226+01:00This explains it better than I could: http://www....This explains it better than I could: http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-us-refugees-asylum-20150904-story.htmlBijouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05788630004051883635noreply@blogger.com