tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post5304215491118397949..comments2024-03-28T07:49:04.960+00:00Comments on nickhereandnow: Candid cameranickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10472673041193755894noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-87457238268101665022008-03-26T09:46:00.000+00:002008-03-26T09:46:00.000+00:00Fergal: That's not an answer, just a dismissal.I w...Fergal: That's not an answer, just a dismissal.<BR/><BR/>I wasn't looking for enlightenment from you. I was asking you to articulate the thinking behind your position.Bock the Robberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670303189589399025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-19914408077122378942008-03-26T08:30:00.000+00:002008-03-26T08:30:00.000+00:00Bock, if you don't know what's wrong with offendin...Bock, if you don't know what's wrong with offending people, there's no point in trying to explain.<BR/><BR/>Fergal - I see your point, and personally I put a high value on privacy, but privacy has always been subject to other people's interests. Which is why we have laws, to protect those interests. I wouldn't respect the privacy of a husband who's beating his wife for example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-11881893544042048822008-03-26T00:43:00.000+00:002008-03-26T00:43:00.000+00:00I think you've unwittingly proposed an ideal solut...I think you've unwittingly proposed an ideal solution: surveillance microphones should record our every word and monitor us for use of inappropriate language.<BR/><BR/>If you don't see what all the fuss is about CCTV, then you're free to forward the police information on your whereabouts on a regular basis. But I think that it's no-one's business what I'm doing as long as its legal, so I'd rather not be filmed going about my daily business. Our privacy is not a gift from the state, to be rationed according to the exigencies of the common good. It is rather ours to keep or give away as we wish. Accordingly, "sure what's the harm in a few cameras" is not a good enough argument as it assumes that, all things being equal, the state has a right to poke it's nose into our affairs. It doesn't, unless we give it that right, and I don't feel like doing that, even if you do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-44873329350439566992008-03-25T22:15:00.000+00:002008-03-25T22:15:00.000+00:00I think we're too worried about offending people. ...I think we're too worried about offending people. The world is full of people waiting to be offended by something, and we can't be constantly tiptoeing around them.<BR/><BR/>Tell me this: what is it that's actually wrong with offending people?Bock the Robberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670303189589399025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-1577294781269989462008-03-25T22:01:00.000+00:002008-03-25T22:01:00.000+00:00Bock - If Grandad's been misinterpreted, then so h...Bock - If Grandad's been misinterpreted, then so have I. I didn't say he minded such terms, the point is that many other people do. And I remember golliwogs very well, but again many people objected to them. Are you saying we should ignore other people's sensitivities?<BR/><BR/>Neither am I telling people what they may or may not say, I'm only suggesting we shouldn't say things that upset other people. Isn't that just common courtesy?<BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't think this debate is going anywhere, which is why I promised Grandad I would say no more on the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-44691652860606464972008-03-25T21:15:00.000+00:002008-03-25T21:15:00.000+00:00Grandad said he didn't mind being called a Mick, a...Grandad said he didn't mind being called a Mick, a Paddy or a redneck culchie. <BR/><BR/>He didn't say anything about calling people golliwogs. He was talking about bringing back dolls that the PC people got banned, but perhaps you're too young to remember them. They were harmless.<BR/><BR/>Like Grandad, I'm thoroughly sick of people telling me what I may and may not say, depending on the ideology they happened to wake up believing on any particular day.Bock the Robberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670303189589399025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-76546944067914642112008-03-25T10:01:00.000+00:002008-03-25T10:01:00.000+00:00Thanks, Herschelian. That's certainly a very convi...Thanks, Herschelian. That's certainly a very convincing argument for getting rid of all the CCTV cameras again! I must admit when some cars were burnt out one night at my last workplace, the CCTV footage was useless because it was too far away from what was happening. And you're also worried about function creep and dubious use of the material.<BR/><BR/>I suppose my viewpoint now would be that I'm still not bothered by being watched, but why are we spending so much money on what seems to be a pretty ineffective measure?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-33389595680218439322008-03-24T21:43:00.000+00:002008-03-24T21:43:00.000+00:00just read this post Nick. Couldn't disagree with y...just read this post Nick. Couldn't disagree with you more and for several reasons.<BR/>Firstly I sit in a court where CCTV footage is often produced - it is almost always absolutely useless for getting clear ID, and in fact very few crimes have been solved using CCTV.<BR/>Secondly Prof Martin Gill of University of Leicester Dept of Criminology has conducted the most comprehensive study of use of CCTV and in summary it deters petty crime for a short while (approx 8 mths) thereafter it fails to work; it has a major diffusion effect whereby crime moves into non-CCTV areas.<BR/>Local Authorities like what is a quick hit technological solution to council taxpayers demands that "something must be done about crime", and like it even more as Central Government gives them the money to install CCTV - which is ironic as the Home Offic Reseach Study on CCTV and crime comes to the same conclusions as Prof Gilbert ie that CCTV is of very limited value with the exception of when used in car parks. (If you look at this on line, be careful not to press print - it is 107 pages long!)<BR/>Worst of all it is function creep - CCTV installed for one reason ends up being used for another; also the people who monitor the images are not always of the highest calibre and sometimes have other uses for the footage.<BR/>In short, no society needs to monitor the daily activities of its citizens on the off chance that some may commit a crime. I do not want to be watched - no nefarious reason, I just don't.<BR/>I lived in SA under Apartheid, and all I can say is thank god they didn't have CCTV at their disposal.herschelianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15962262409107866228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-88885503770612971612008-03-23T07:34:00.000+00:002008-03-23T07:34:00.000+00:00Fair enough: although I think about it, I seldom n...Fair enough: although I think about it, I seldom notice it when I'm in the UK, and generally treat it like a variation of the cop on the beat, as you do. So far, it's been an overall good deterrent.Dave Hamptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756506577756946937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-139170697742552962008-03-23T07:28:00.000+00:002008-03-23T07:28:00.000+00:00Thanks for that, Dave. Very interesting links. I f...Thanks for that, Dave. Very interesting links. I forgot about the police control rooms. I've no objection to people watching me or even asking me (remotely) not to do something I shouldn't be doing liking cycling on the pavement. This just seems to be an effective alternative to coppers on the beat doing the same thing. I'm concerned the watching might become voyeuristic but that's just a question of staff discipline.<BR/><BR/>Re mugshots linked to cameras, if the mugshot is of a known convicted criminal, fine. If they intended to take mugshots of everyone, I'd certainly be opposed to that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-25957837048970079262008-03-22T23:00:00.000+00:002008-03-22T23:00:00.000+00:00No, this is an English thing: all the cameras are ...No, this is an English thing: all the cameras are hooked into control rooms with active, live, human monitors:<BR/><BR/>http://www.horncastlenews.co.uk/leisure-features/Take-a-look-at-the.3784075.jp<BR/><BR/> They are starting to attach speakers to the system so that if they see someone doing something suspicious (or inappropriate) they can tell them on-the-spot:<BR/><BR/>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=405477&in_page_id=1770<BR/><BR/> Finally, the industry is trying to match mug shots to camera shots:<BR/><BR/>http://www.cctvcore.co.uk/20-03-2008-plans-for-mugshot-database-revealed.html<BR/><BR/>Again, I'm all for monitoring places for public safety and property protection. My issue is with live operators following and correcting individual activities. Presumption of innocence and right to be left alone are still my concerns.Dave Hamptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756506577756946937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-72311447173162953572008-03-22T14:10:00.000+00:002008-03-22T14:10:00.000+00:00Dave - I didn't know there were any monitoring cen...Dave - I didn't know there were any monitoring centres to speak of, or is that just the Netherlands? I know some shops and offices and official buildings tend to monitor the cameras, but beyond that I thought most cameras were ignored unless some sort of evidence was needed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-8301162766478510682008-03-22T13:39:00.000+00:002008-03-22T13:39:00.000+00:00I appreciate the comments: I feel like a bit of a ...I appreciate the comments: I feel like a bit of a curmudgeon saying that I just want to be left in peace.<BR/><BR/> Article after article about life in the monitoring centers documents how long hours of boredom lead to prosecution of casual misdemeanors and outright voyeurism.<BR/><BR/>Government owes citizens a presumption of innocence, and a right to be left alone unless there is cause to intrude. I would rather not be actively monitored, not because I have anything to hide, but because I don't trust the watchers.<BR/><BR/>'Good discussion; good points, all.Dave Hamptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756506577756946937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-79922701772042668132008-03-22T09:53:00.000+00:002008-03-22T09:53:00.000+00:00There seems to be a bit of a sub-debate going on h...There seems to be a bit of a sub-debate going on here about my post. There also seems to be a complete misunderstanding of my message -<BR/><BR/>"<EM>He may think it's okay to call people dykes, faggots, whores and sluts but people on the receiving end of such insults day in and day out wouldn't agree.</EM>"<BR/><BR/>At no point did I ever promote insulting language. I have stated in my comments that I am violently opposed to the use of any word in a perjorative sense. The majority of my readers read my post and got the message I was trying to put across. I will let their comments speak for themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-1848069203575755212008-03-22T07:52:00.000+00:002008-03-22T07:52:00.000+00:00Quickie - Don't know anything about VR so can't re...Quickie - Don't know anything about VR so can't really comment, but it sounds intrusive. Naked People is definitely intrusive.<BR/><BR/>www - I've read about the Patriot Act and it sounds like a nasty development. I wouldn't want anyone snooping on my emails and phone calls just because someone had tipped them off I was a 'terrorist'. Glad you saw Grandad's post the same way.<BR/><BR/>Heart - Exactly. Believing in good manners and not insulting people doesn't make you a crybaby. And 'crybaby' is of course a classic sexist insult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-32214436637411767822008-03-22T01:44:00.000+00:002008-03-22T01:44:00.000+00:00And furthermore Nick~~~I decided to speak out on G...And furthermore Nick~~~<BR/>I decided to speak out on Grandad's blog, Nick, and did a long post on all the reason, IMHO, that name-calling never enhances anyone's life and is one step shy of outright discrimination.<BR/>I'm glad you mentioned him on your blog as I had simply deleted him from my favourites and now I see I needed to take action.<BR/>XO<BR/>WWWWisewebwomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15281689872840844191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-16537668232301157422008-03-22T01:26:00.000+00:002008-03-22T01:26:00.000+00:00I hadn't read Granddad's blog before and I won't a...I hadn't read Granddad's blog before and I won't again.<BR/><BR/>I am not a crybaby. I simply believe that good manners were invented so that we could live in the world together with minimal damage. It is never necessary to insult someone, and if you are focused on that someone's race or nationality, you are missing most of what he or she is about. <BR/><BR/>I don't like the idea of Big Brother watching me either.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-32178768009012864392008-03-22T00:03:00.000+00:002008-03-22T00:03:00.000+00:00Nick:I disagree with you on the cameras. I really,...Nick:<BR/>I disagree with you on the cameras. I really, really despise this sneaky invasion of our privacy. You get the Patriot Act in the states, the snooping on telephone and emails, etc. All for the sake of so-called democracy and protecting homeland. I mean where does it stop? Is there a line in the sand?<BR/>I don't particularly care for strangers seeing where I shop, how much money I'm taking from the ATM, what I'm throwing in the rubbish bin, what books I took from the library (Fahrenheit 451 anyone?). <BR/>You see where I'm going with this?<BR/>I hope so. Tis a very, very find line, I'm thinkin'.<BR/>As to Grandad, I was so shocked I was speechless. It was too severe a post to put down to a brain fart.<BR/>Thanks for speaking up, I couldn't find the words!!<BR/>XO<BR/>WWWWisewebwomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15281689872840844191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-23296858788304705262008-03-21T23:13:00.000+00:002008-03-21T23:13:00.000+00:00All blown out of proportion indded there is a simi...All blown out of proportion indded there is a similar furore over several cities plans to create virtual reality views of neighbourhoods by taking millions of photos and processing the images via a supercomputer. If you happen to be out n' about as the photo is being taken you could be imortalised in a VR view of your hood!<BR/><BR/>Also Google earth has been the source of entertainment as you can see people sunbathing naked on rooftops or gardens - I kid you not!<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://googlesightseeing.com/2006/11/28/top-10-naked-people-on-google-earth/" REL="nofollow">Google Earth Naked People</A>Paddy in BA (Quickroute)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12748161252400814925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-75262764780723135832008-03-21T22:46:00.000+00:002008-03-21T22:46:00.000+00:00John - Thanks for that! Yes indeed, where are all ...John - Thanks for that! Yes indeed, where are all these mythical liberal do-gooders who want to rewrite the entire language to avoid offending every conceivable minority? As soon as you look for them, they turn out to be a media invention. But people get so obsessed with the (alleged) excesses they lose sight of the basic objective, which is simply common decency and courtesy.<BR/><BR/>Liz - No, those stories of X-ray cameras are scary. Those really would be misused! But as I say, I doubt if there's an army of people out there diligently watching every camera in every street. Hardly edge-of-your-seat entertainment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-57156405817505589932008-03-21T22:04:00.000+00:002008-03-21T22:04:00.000+00:00I just don't want see through your clothes cameras...I just don't want see through your clothes cameras. And I wonder how the footage is used other than catching the bad guys!Liz Dwyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17794296990587989214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-36567611376428932732008-03-21T21:33:00.000+00:002008-03-21T21:33:00.000+00:00The problem with Grandad's comments, joking or not...The problem with Grandad's comments, joking or not, is that the sort of ridiculous examples of 'PC gone mad' ((c) Daily Mail) that he cites are also not true. "Winterval"? Try reading <A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/dec/21/religion.world" REL="nofollow">this</A>. "Baa baa Rainbow Sheep"? Not quite so lily-livered as it sounds when you read <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm" REL="nofollow">the full story.</A><BR/><BR/>So the difficulty is that these extreme (invented) examples are used to denounce the whole idea of political correctness, which as Nick points out, is a thoroughly admirable idea: as Martin Amis put it, an attempt to accelerate evolution.<BR/><BR/>People who actually think it's worthwhile to protest against political correctness are helping the morons like the <A HREF="http://www.capc.co.uk/" REL="nofollow">Campaign Against Political Correctness</A> who have to be read to be believed. See <A HREF="http://palimpsest.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=583" REL="nofollow">here</A> for some fun with them.John Selfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05761816149593541133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-54865217317207995532008-03-21T21:19:00.000+00:002008-03-21T21:19:00.000+00:00Baino - True enough, the cameras get the credit wh...Baino - True enough, the cameras get the credit whether crime is detected or prevented. And it's hard to prove they're worthwhile.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure Grandad's heart is in the right place but I feel strongly he got a bit carried away on this one. And as I said, most of those horror stories turn out to be tabloid lies when you actually investigate them.<BR/><BR/>Mum - Oh I agree with you there, mad concoctions like 'aurally challenged' are absurd.<BR/><BR/>Muddy - 24 hour camera surveillance - who cares? Your neighbours can watch you 24/7 if they want but so what? They'd soon fall asleep from utter boredom I'm sure. But predicting criminality in primary kids from DNA samples is really creepy, I don't go along with that at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-74315286301124926052008-03-21T20:50:00.000+00:002008-03-21T20:50:00.000+00:00I have nothing to hide but my privacy.No ones godd...I have nothing to hide but my privacy.<BR/><BR/>No ones goddamn business what books I read, who I talk to or where I am.<BR/><BR/>I understand the idea that cctv is there as a deterrant but what sort of society have we let come about that sees this as a good thing?<BR/><BR/>Cops on the beat I agree with but 24 hr camera surveillance I abhor.<BR/>The UK is the most surveilled populace on the planet. The current govt have proposed taking dna samples from all primary school children and monitoring their behaviour to predict future criminality. Have they been reading too much Phil Dick??????<BR/><BR/>CCTV is only the start, we have let it become ubiquitous with nary a whimper. We, as a society need to be vigilant, our civil liberties have been eroded in the name of freedom.<BR/><BR/>Giving up our liberty for the illusion of security is shameful.Mudflapgypsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12398497408759954068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3467242994126386706.post-63850694315425348852008-03-21T20:42:00.000+00:002008-03-21T20:42:00.000+00:00Nick: Baino's right. I don't think he was suggest...Nick: Baino's right. I don't think he was suggesting the whores/faggots thing. It was more like the silliness of not being able to say 'deaf' but having to say 'aurally challenged' or whatever! He's lovely, honest! xAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com